Curse

chpmmttn · May 12, 2005, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Studio Ghibli

.. then.. don't go through the game again.

Switch your secondary class and visit the skill trainers.

You can do it as many times as you'd like.

In fact, once you complete the "switch to X class" quest, you can switch back and forth and back and forth..

but they've already visited THOSE skill trainers. grind grind grind.

Kordesh · May 12, 2005, 07:52 PM // 19:52

In comparison, GW is not even REMOTELY close to a grind. Not even close. Drop the FPS mindset of having EVERYTHING handed to you the second you drop into the game. Oh noes, I must come in contact with an NPC when I enter an RPG. OMG I R GRINDING CAREBARE. I'm sorry, I like PvP, but people like that annoy the shit out of me.

Akshara · May 12, 2005, 08:07 PM // 20:07

You know, at first I was bummed to learn that one had to go through PvE to lvl 20 to unlock the skills for PvP. I too presumed that I'd be able to create a well designed PvP character fairly quickly. For me, the pre-designed choices just weren't that great. I tried a couple anyway... and discovered I was completely lost with how to handle the characters.

So I went into PvE, and began doing the supposed "grind" to create a character for PvP. And then amazingly enough, I began to enjoy it. I also recognized how PvE would make it so by the time my character was ready, I would know how to handle it really well. The whole thing started to make sense...

The side effect is that I don't play PvP as much as I'd orignally intended to. But I know that when I do, even if it is with a pre-designed character, that I'll be a much better asset to any team because of it.

One man's grind is another man's opportunity.

Sam Katha · May 12, 2005, 08:11 PM // 20:11

All I know is if ArenaNet is going to make a change to address this I wouldn't want to be the one that has to make it. No matter what they change they are going to get blasted by both sides in this argument.

Eet GnomeSmasher · May 12, 2005, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimu

Fine..then at least keep it to one topic..

Hey, the people who keep changing the topic are people who keep flaming and trolling, it's not strictly the people who are complaining about the grind. For crying out loud...

evil.E · May 12, 2005, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kordesh

In comparison, GW is not even REMOTELY close to a grind. Not even close. Drop the FPS mindset of having EVERYTHING handed to you the second you drop into the game. Oh noes, I must come in contact with an NPC when I enter an RPG. OMG I R GRINDING CAREBARE. I'm sorry, I like PvP, but people like that annoy the shit out of me.

QFE

I played SWG for a long time and that my friends is a grind. That's all that game had to offer was one long boring grind after another. By comparison GW is not even close to a grind. So what if you don't have 50 runes. I've had the game since release and haven't even finished the PVE portion of this game (Not even close BTW). Why? because I've been too busy having fun PVP'ing to care. I could care less that I don't have all t3h ub3r l33t crap. That stuff may help but to me that just leads to a false sense of invincibility. Which in turn leads to being one of the first ones dead in the HoH.

My philosophy has always been to learn to win without the ub3r stuff first. That'll actually teach you how to play instead of always relying on your gear to win.

TalonSlayer · May 12, 2005, 08:30 PM // 20:30

I played EQ and SWG. Calling Guild Wars a "grind" is a joke.

dorn · May 12, 2005, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul Monarch

Because this is an opinion issue, you are neither right nor wrong. Either way, you aren't going to get this one particular thing in the game changed, because there is too much invested into it.

Not to get off topic but I think what is happening here is the guild wars page is basically directing forum traffic to you guys and people who are disatisfied with the game's current state will be prone to coming in here and stating pure opinions about stuff they want altered even if it is unlikely such things will be changed.

Which then of course will prompt people to argue against such proposed changes if they like the current system. Until GW gets there own forums though closing the threads probably won't do much good because likely a lot of people just signed up to the forum to complain about something in the only place they feel is visible to the GW team.

To be honest I've been seriously suprised GW hasn't gotten their own forums yet specifically because of this.

May 12, 2005, 08:32 PM // 20:32

I'm waiting for someone to actually pay attention to the game and look at skill points and try to tell me there is no grind in GW.

Studio Ghibli · May 12, 2005, 08:37 PM // 20:37

I think the reason we have Skill Points like that is to discourage people from changing them repeatedly during Missions or PvP events. Otherwise, you'd have people abusing it.

It's more a preventative measure and less an intended grind.

May 12, 2005, 08:39 PM // 20:39

No they arent there to prevent any abuse because you cant abuse them. You're confusing skill points with refund points.

Skill points are what you spend when you buy skills from the trainers or get a skill through the SoC.

Studio Ghibli · May 12, 2005, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Oh--woops.

How do skill points = grind?

Bone_White_Haze · May 12, 2005, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

I'm waiting for someone to actually pay attention to the game and look at skill points and try to tell me there is no grind in GW.

I'm waiting for someone to point out another in-genre game where virtually the entire population (that wants to) will be fully twinked out in less than a month.

Sam Katha · May 12, 2005, 09:20 PM // 21:20

This argument will eventually solve itself. Everything only needs to be unlocked once. As time goes by and people unlock more and more things, they will no longer have a reason to complain. My advice, wait this one out.

May 12, 2005, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bone_White_Haze

I'm waiting for someone to point out another in-genre game where virtually the entire population (that wants to) will be fully twinked out in less than a month.

That wont happen in GW. The drop rate of superiors and certain mods are way too low for that to happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Studio Ghibli

Oh--woops.

How do skill points = grind?

Because you dont have enough of them to buy every skill and capture every skill possible. So the best thing to do is get skills through questing since they dont cost skill points. But you can only do that so many times before you must use SP. Once you run out, you just have to repeatedly level up for a SP on level 20.

Quote:

This argument will eventually solve itself. Everything only needs to be unlocked once. As time goes by and people unlock more and more things, they will no longer have a reason to complain. My advice, wait this one out.

The argument doesn't solely revolve around how long it takes to unlock things. It's about keeping a level playing field and right now whoever farms the longest has much more power. New players or people just casually browsing through PvE just wont have a chance vs people farming their eyes out.

BE|Dac · May 12, 2005, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

That wont happen in GW. The drop rate of superiors and certain mods are way too low for that to happen.

Because you dont have enough of them to buy every skill and capture every skill possible. So the best thing to do is get skills through questing since they dont cost skill points. But you can only do that so many times before you must use SP. Once you run out, you just have to repeatedly level up for a SP on level 20.

The argument doesn't solely revolve around how long it takes to unlock things. It's about keeping a level playing field and right now whoever farms the longest has much more power. New players or people just casually browsing through PvE just wont have a chance vs people farming their eyes out.

this post is truth, there is no way around it

Barkam · May 12, 2005, 09:37 PM // 21:37

I am with Blackace and Dac on this one. Something needs to be done. My whole guild is dissapointed about this atm. I spent a whole day just to unlock that much coveted superior rune, and I know that's just the beginning.

Studio Ghibli · May 12, 2005, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Don't really know what to say.

Anything you can do to this ruins it.

You remove the item altogether, or make the items so common that the bonus is worthless anyway.

chalt2 · May 12, 2005, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

The argument doesn't solely revolve around how long it takes to unlock things. It's about keeping a level playing field and right now whoever farms the longest has much more power.

Ok so which is it? Because the first sentence doesn't jive with the second sentence, I mean "how long it takes" and "farms the longest" are both about time right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

New players or people just casually browsing through PvE just wont have a chance vs people farming their eyes out.

Why would someone that bought the game today even begin to think that they would or should have a chance against someone that has been playing for two weeks?

Again the bottom line is the game is TWO WEEKS old can't it have a chance to fulfill what potential it might have for the long haul?

Is it really necessary to stomp up and down that it hasn't turned out the way that your pre-conceived hopeful idea of a 100 hour game mastery schedule should have gone.

I really don't think the Devs sat down and said well lets see if we can create a game that can be mastered in 100 hours or less and then preceded to create it to that purpose.

Soul Monarch · May 12, 2005, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkam

I am with Blackace and Dac on this one. Something needs to be done.

Hmmm, I do agree that it all equates to a grind for many players.

I don't necessarily agree that anything should be done, though. Heck, it's impossible to even tell how many people truly want it changed. Are we hearing from a vocal minority here? Or are there thousands of people out there who aren't on any forums that want this changed too? I'm really not sure that question can be answered.